Liberty for Captives

6 comments on “Topical Index of Blog Posts”

1. Dale McElroy February 25, 2014 at 5:18 pm Reply

   What is the solution to the apostasy that is taking place among the youth
   in America? Josh McDowell points out that they are leaving the faith, not just
   the churches. “The Last Christian Generation” Does Dallas Theological seminary
   still promote the “once saved” heresy contrary to sound doctrine? 2 Timothy 4:1-4
   Sound doctrine being conditional security of the saint. Romans 11:20-22 contrasts
   the “once saved” lie as do many verses.

   • Liberty for Captives February 25, 2014 at 8:27 pm Reply

     Hi Dale, thanks for your comment and for reading this blog. Wow, you ask the big questions right off the bat, don’t you? What’s the answer to the apostasy among the youth in America? I’m not sure, Dale. I can only speak for myself when I say that my own faith was shaken when I saw the abuses that had been perpetrated in the name of Jesus and with scriptures wrenched out of context. It was disheartening to realize that my church had spent 25 years focusing on rules and regulations and had forgotten about the gospel and about loving God and loving our neighbor. But God gave me grace to remember that a system should not be judged by its abuse, but rather on its true essence. So my faith has survived in the goodness of God, the death and resurrection of Jesus, and in the reliability and authority of his Word. Perhaps many of our youth feel misled by a religion which seems legalistic and irrelevant when taught by their particular church, when in fact the gospel of God is always life-giving and relevant when properly explained and received.

     I’m not sure we can call the “once saved” position a heresy, Dale. I understand why you refer to Romans 11:20-22 (and we might add Ezekiel 18 as the Old Testament complement). But there are many scriptures which also suggest that when a person comes to genuine faith in Christ they are saved once for all. I am thinking of Ephesians 2:8-10, John 10:28, and all the passages in John and 1 John which speak of the assurance believers may have in the promises of God, the inner witness of the Spirit, and in the fruit of righteousness. Indeed, Romans 8:28-39 makes a powerful case for the sovereignty of God in salvation apart from human effort. When we take the whole counsel of God we see passages which command that believers remain true to the faith and we see passages which remind us that salvation is truly by grace through faith alone, and not by any works we can do.

     It sounds like this is an area you feel passionately about, and about which you have done a lot of research. Could you help me understand why? Some would argue that your position could lead to a works-based salvation where everything depends on human effort to remain in the faith. Hardly good news. Is it possible that we need to take all of these passages — both the passages which talk about people falling from the faith, and the ones which say that no one can be plucked out of God’s hand — and combine them to get the whole truth? Perhaps there are folks who appear to have faith (but do not) who then “fall away” from their religious practices and leave the church. This would be my preferred interpretation of both Romans 11:20-22 and the warning passages in Hebrews. But I believe strongly that when God saves a person they are saved forever. I do not think this can be called a heresy, since the major church creeds say nothing about it and there are other scripture passages which seem to say the opposite.

     At any rate, I appreciate your comment Dale. I hope you keep reading and I welcome your further thoughtful comments.

     • Dale February 27, 2014 at 5:42 pm

       2-27-14 Thanks for your response. I have been asking for people to pray for an awakening for 2 years in the East Texas area in Sunday Schools. I have done some apologetic work. There is heresy throughout modern Christians as scripture warns it would be in the elect in latter times. 2 Timothy 4:1-4 The New Testament does teach biblical assurance but at a much higher level than most Southern Baptists. Like in Christians are dead to sin, Romans 6 and practice righteousness, 1 John 3. And put to death the deeds of the flesh, Romans 8. Jesus will deny those who deny Him, correct? That is what my Bible teaches, 2 Timothy 2:11-14, and I really do not need a theologian to exegete or twist these verses for me. I have seen a false teaching from Dallas Theological seminary in the past that explains away verses that contrast Calvinistic theology. The false teachers of 2 Peter 2 had been saved. They forsook the right way. So the “once saved” concept can either be defined as an itching ears teaching or a myth. And false teachers within the Charismatic movement explain away 1 Timothy 2 allowing women to teach men. Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 01:27:20 +0000 To: dale_mcelroy@hotmail.com

     • Liberty for Captives March 2, 2014 at 1:29 pm

       Hi Dale. There is another interpretation to passages like 2 Timothy 2:11-14, 2 Peter 2, and the warning passages in Hebrews which talk about people leaving the faith: those people were never saved in the first place. The Lord has “bought” all people (if we believe that Jesus died for the whole world, 1 John 2:2) so 2 Peter 2 need not refer to previously regenerate people. When John 3 talks about being “born again,” it is analagous to our first birth, i.e., you cannot be “unborn.” Again, some folks take all the New Testament passages about obeying God’s commands and remaining true to the faith as warnings that a Christian can fall away and become damned. I say this is to misinterpret scripture and to focus on works righteousness which is man-based rather than God-based. I realize we disagree on this matter and it is unlikely that either of us will sway the other. I too, pray for revival in the church. On that we do agree =)

     • Dale March 4, 2014 at 1:01 pm

       In context, John was talking about antichrists leaving us. That doesn’t do away with the reality that people can leave the faith. What Calvinism has done has pointed out all the verses that teach security and explained away verses that point out the fact That Mankind does indeed have freewill within election and responsibility within election. Ok, since Christianity has died in Europe was it ever there? It is dying in America, just like it did there. What is the solution? To make disciples of young Christians. Show them the dangers of loving the world. America’s youth have basically been trained that they can love the world and Jesus. No way In liberal denominations where apostasy is more pronounced among the old, why are people embracing homosexuality as being OK? False teachings explaining it away. Romans 11 teaches that Israel was cut off because of unbelief. Could the church be? The warning states so. Romans 11:20-22 And people trained in Calvinism many cases cannot even hear the warning. Why because it contrasts the false religion people were trained in. And it is groups of people that cannot hear the warning. Leaders are commanded to teach this: 2 Timothy 2: remind them of these things If we died with him, we will live with him, Romans 6 If we surfer with him, we will reign with him, Romans 8 If we deny or disown him, he will deny or disown us, Matthew 10 Leaders cannot remind Christians of these things if they have been trained away from it in seminary can they? And just as Catholic apologists defend their false religion, John Martignoni being 1, so do Calvinists defend their false religion. How many days did I try to get Charles Stanley’s staff and apologist Matt Slick to even acknowledge simple verses in the Bible? Many, but they couldn’t even exegete simple verses that contrasted their “theology”. If someone forsook the right way, they had been there. If they had escaped the corruptions of the world, they had been born again. 2 Peter 2

       Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2014 18:29:39 +0000 To: dale_mcelroy@hotmail.com

     • Dale March 4, 2014 at 5:26 pm

       3-4-14 See if you can exegete Romans 11:20-22, Christian Apologist Matt Slick, trained in Calvinism could not. Many Calvinist today cannot even see God’s severity because they have been trained in false religion. (elements of Calvinism) If I was a seminary professor and gave you a pop quiz and you couldn’t get this right, I would give you an “F” probably in the 30’s because I am gracious. But Catholic apologist Carl Keaton can exegete this because he wasn’t trained in Calvinism. He was trained in Catholic theology which has its own heresies. (like Calvinism’s “once saved” heresy) Catholics have false teachings explaining Matthew 23:9 away, call no Father. For every error in Catholicsm, there is a false teaching to support it. This is a gift for you if you do not know it. Romans 11:20-22New American Standard Bible (NASB)20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God�s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2014 18:29:39 +0000 To: dale_mcelroy@hotmail.com